Nazgul were formidable opponants, under the right circumstances. Tolkien. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. With possession of the one ring he would have replaced Sauron (would have wiped him out entirely). I got down on bended knee at the top of the mountain and proposed. I know Letter 246 says Sauron himself did not fear the Ring, would not have hesitated to confront a Ring-wielding Frodo, and could easily have forced Frodo to hand the Ring over. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. The three created majesty of a different sort, and magnified the loyalty of those who already were loyal, rather than coercing by fear. He'd have used his bird spies to scour the area and sent out Uruks on wargs and men on horses. What If Saruman Took The One Ring!?! | Middle Earth Lore But if Eomer hadn't disobeyed orders? Thank you! When Gandalf returned and revealed himself to Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas in Fangorn he said something to the effect of "in a way I'm now Saruman, but you can keep calling me Gandalf." On the other hand, Sauron was not invincible either. We learn that Denethor, steward of Gondor, had used the Palantir to divine knowledge of the Enemys movements only just before the steward burns himself alive. I think people project a kind of loaded weapon mentality onto the rings which is misleading. So what's a few millennia. That is, however, a legitimate concern when entering any fight: any weaponry you wield may be captured and used against you. If the Uruk Army sent by Saruman had captured Frodo and had gotten the One Ring to Saruman, what would Saruman have done with it? If Saruman destroyed Sauron If he won, he would become a great L. Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. One can imagine I would think that Saruman, a Maia, would be in that category. What If THE RINGS OF POWER's Stranger Is Saruman? Their power was in preserving and healing the hurts done to the earth, and to those who were harmed by evil. Saruman also experimented with the making of a Ring of his own. Loyalty is an important theme in Tolkien's world and obedience to authority is paramount in a medieval setting as in Middle-Earth. In his mind, it was the only logical thing to do, and he offered Gandalf a place by his side. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf the Grey, but . Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. *shrugs*. He now lives with his family in Lynchburg VA and is an avid outdoorsman. It might be that if Saruman had the Ring he would, in a Maiar way, then become Sauron in the same way. As with Gandalf or Galadriel, the Ring would comply with the good intent of their first efforts. It allowed him to recover multiple times after his physical body got destroyed. However, Saruman had planned his rise to power much earlier than that. What Could Sauron Have Done Had He Regained the One Ring? How long before Sauron wrung out the truth from Saruman? Saruman was corrupted already so was a good candidate for the One Ring, through him it could exert Sauron's will to enslave all Middle-earth. Orcs are poster children for corruption, and plague the Fellowship throughout the novels. (OK, just a Numenorean with the largest army and navy in all of history.) If he followed the strategy I've mentioned, his fighters would have to deal with the feisty Rohirrim, and would also run the risk of a flank attack from Gondor, before they could even get near Isengard. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. When Gandalf meets Saruman in Orthanc, he notices that Saruman is wearing a ring. It was literally Sauron's essence made into an inanimate object. Much of Sarumans history in the Second Age is mysterious. I recall the Narsil having been forged by the elves, using elvish magic. Through them Tolkien shows Faramir and Eomer's quality was in not being blind followers of loyalty and obedience to king and father but seeing a bigger picture and being obedient to a greater purpose. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? )https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCScfG2CfbSh_LUzkGJ_p-aAHistory of Dragon Ball - (For all things Dragon Ball! But I've been thinking. Unfortunately, the woman did not remember the name of the stone and we will be in St. Thomas next week (YEAY) so I was wondering if anyone had any idea what this stone . You would have both Saruman and Sauron focused in the same area and it is very unlikely Frodo would have escaped that level of scrutiny even with Gollum leading him on secret paths. That's when the Rohirrim attacked, allowing the Hobbits to escape into Fangorn forest. He still had the nine, and perhaps some of the seven. Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. He wanted the One Ring. Hes of the same order of beings as Sauron, so he certainly has enough power to effectively use the ring. Hidden realms of elves in the past had undone the plans of Morgoth himself, and Sauron was not likely to let such a thing go unchallenged. It's interesting here that since both Sauron and Saruman were in origin Maiar of Aule, they may be expected to have some knowledge of each other, and that they would have some idea of each other's strengths and weaknesses. That means Frodo had to destroy the Ring to destroy Sauron for good. [ST:TNG] The First Duty what if there had been no accident? And in The Rings of Power, when the . In fact, as recent graduate of Greensboro College's honors program, Blake wrote his thesis on Star Wars and its religious connections. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". But if they did, Saruman would have had the One Ring in his possession. After that there is no other mention of Aragorn and the Ring together. Tolkien says in Letter 246 that the Ring is not only comparable to "a devastating weapon" (which Frodo doesn't know how to use) but also to "an object of terror in their religious cult, by which they had been conditioned to treat one who wielded it with servility". 2023 Minute Media - All Rights Reserved. Ar Pharazon the Golden defeated Sauron, before he lost the ring, and he was just a Numenorean. Lucky hit or not, he was vulnerable to a mere sword with no great magical ability or anything displayed that showed the ring as some huge magnifier of magical ability. Courage to ones fellows, hope in adversity, and comfort to the suffering were the powers enhanced by the three. The whole premise of The Lord of the Rings was to keep the One Ring (which existed for a long time) away from the Dark Lord Sauron. The Lord of the Rings: Prolegomenon to The Two Towers Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. At the beginning of the story, Saruman is more powerful than Gandalf. Which probably wouldn't have happened. Basically it took a super-human with a super-sword to chop the ring off of Sauron's hand and he only did that with a lucky hit. Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron? As Sauron once was, Saruman, a Maia of Aule, became absorbed in Ring-lore as he studied Sauron's evil works. (Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, The Silmarillion as far as the quoted material here goes). No doubt he would have exercised all his powers searching the area from Parth Galen where the Ringbearer departed to the Black Gate. . What about orcs, or trolls wielding the rings taken from the dwarves? Sauron was not a run of the mill foe and an ordinary blade wielded by an ordinary man would not have sufficed. Earlier in the same letter we see just exactly how useful the Ring would have been to a hypothetical Ring-bearing Saruman (or anyone else, for that matter): Sauron would not have feared the Ring! Saruman was Maia like Sauron. That Saruman is nothing like the Stranger who falls from the sky in The Rings of Power. Tolkien's complex writings and retcons don't reveal a crystal-clear answer about Saruman arriving first, but if you go by The Silmarillion, Saruman did. Gandalf was going to announce that Sauron had found the Ring. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. No one could even comprehend the length of His existence. Elbereth Vala Varda said: Saruman fell to darkness regardless. Without Gandalf, King Theoden would likely remain under the control of Saruman. This perfectly explained how the Ring could have gotten from Sauron to Isildur to Gollum to . Does he use his great voice, enhanced by the One to subjugate the free peoples. A normal man with a normal sword would probably have failed miserably even if he had got in the lucky hit. The One Ring has a number of powers and depending on what information (particularly regarding the Middle Earth RPG) you will get very vague to very specific capabilties for the One Ring. These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. Does it shoot bolts of kickarse out of it's hilt? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. The Lord of the Rings doesnt have plot holes. Yet, it's also possible that Sauron would have triumphed and regained the Ring for himself. Thus, the power of the Ring is both direct (like the power of a weapon) and symbolic (like the power of a cult object). Saruman joined Sauron only partially. Why didn't they bring the Ring to Valinor? This is the real reason the eagles question will never die: Its too appetizing for The Lord of the Rings fans. When Gandalf sent Frodo and the Hobbits to Bree in The Lord of the Rings' opening act, he had the fullest intent of meeting them there. If Im not mistaken, he is Vanyar? So if Saruman mastered the Ring, he would become the next Dark Lord of Middle-earth. Either way Sauron would've just destroyed him at some point if he got the ring back; Saruman getting the Ring is another . "Greetings, Naruto Wraithslayer, wielder of the Faerdagnir. As Istari, they were to exhort the free peoples of the world in preparation for a possible future conflict with Sauron. Naruto turned, and saw a Wizard in all white and an Elven Lady behind him. They were basically the teachers pet ones who lived closest to the Valar and did not trouble themselves (except once) with the problems of Middle-Earth. Sauron may not learn the true goal of the Ringbearer but he would know that the ringbearer was most likely near or nearing his borders. He would simply wait and let the Ring do what it was made to do. But what was the purpose of the three? cbr.com - Blake Hawkins 14h. Middle-earth & J.R.R. What If THE RINGS OF POWER's Stranger Is Saruman? The Lord Of The Rings: 10 'What If' Scenarios That Would Change Everything Whats the threshold of power for a wielder of the one ring to defeat Sauron? This is what Sauron feared that his enemies would do, if they got the Ring; and that's the only reason he feared them. That was a lucky hitand did you perhaps notice that Sauron was more or less single-handedly beating the entire Last Alliance army at that point? Covering the hottest movie and TV topics that fans want. It may have taken a while to learn to use the Ring to its full potential, and Sauron would surely have put everything he had behind trying to get it back, but itd be iffy, and he certainly couldnt use the Nazgul or other ring-empowered creatures against the weilder of the One. Read more on cbr.com. The Eye of Sauron is one of the most iconic symbols associated with J.R.R. Either way, the battle between them would have been a catastrophic lose-lose situation for everyone. Fury of the Gods Special: Shazamily Matters, A Lord of the Rings Theory Hints Tom Bombadil Was in the Movies All Along, 10 Sci-Fi Films That Bombed At The Box Office But Became Cult Classics. Any idea what set any of these are from? They got the identity wrong, but the Stranger felt the direction about Rhn to be accurate. Answer (1 of 13): If Saruman acquired the One Ring and had time to learn to use it, then he would go to war against Sauron. By this Tolkien shows that disobedience for good reasons has merit. Even if Saruman won this hypothetical battle, it would be ultimately irrelevant. Either way, Saruman through torture or his Voice would have quickly learned everything about the Quest of the Ring. What would happen if Saruman got the ring? But if only one Istar has come to Middle-earth so far, Saruman is a strong candidate. What Would Happen if Saruman Got the One Ring in LOTR? Gandalf found out that Saruman had abandoned his mission when the White Wizard asked him to join forces with Sauron. You must log in or register to reply here. Saruman comes to look down on hobbits. The content on this site is for entertainment and educational purposes only. He believed he could fake an alliance with the Dark Lord while ultimately finding the ring for himself and ruling Middle Earth. Lord of the Rings: What if Frodo Had Kept Sauron's Ring? I dont find it terribly exciting that Gandalf arrived in Middle-earth and was good from the beginning (with Noris help). The one, and the nine created fearful dominance, fraught with majesty, and terror. The thing is, it's worth wondering what would have happened if Frodo had failed. Frodo was a hobbit with one companion, in the heart of Sauron's realm. Also there is the forest of Fangorn between them I think. Sauron is the primary villain of The Lord Of The Rings. Does this sword yield more power than the ring? He would have also learned where the Fellowship was broken and knowing the Ringbearer's true purpose would assume his destination would be the Black Gate which indeed it was until Gollum convinced Frodo otherwise. But he didn't because Eomer disobeyed his king and destroyed an orc band that had the most crucial thing needed by both Saruman and Sauron - information. Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. The Rings of Power finale took viewers on a ride with solved mysteries, reunions, and goodbyes. However, you may visit "Cookie Settings" to provide a controlled consent. https://www.teespring.com/stores/historyoftheagesAlso here are our other social media links too! In The Lord of the Rings, the palantri corrupt nearly all who use them. He could turn invisible and go slowly crazy, which seem to be the width of the one ring's powers. Blake Hawkins has written TV and movie features and recaps for CBR since March of 2021. My understanding of the crushingly unavoidable fate which is the history of Middle Earth says that the One Ring belongs to Sauron and no other. Saruman & Sauron in Lord of the Rings: Differences And hes got a considerable stronghold and force of arms with which to hold off Saurons forces until he can learn to use it. But there are important differences between Saruman's position, if he had taken the Ring in Isengard, and Frodo's position when he claimed the Ring in Mordor. Two Blue Wizards went with Saruman into the East. In any event, a confrontation between Saruman and Sauron seems as though it would not be a closely fought as the one between Gandalf and Sauron described above; Gandalf was able to cast-out Saruman, so it seems as though Sauron would have more easily had the upper-hand in such a contest. Elemental Staffs. After that, in the Undying Lands, Sauron was more powerful. Meanwhile, Gandalf kept an eye on Bilbo and noticed that he was not aging. *shrugs*. Forces from Mordor and Rhun would have been sent to fight their way through Rohan, leaving Minas Tirith undefeated to the south. Keep in mind the Ring doesn't only have Sauron's power in it. So it's possible that someone of sufficient power could break the Rings bond to Sauron. When Sauron thought Aragorn had the Ring, he reacted with a swift military offensive. the lord of the rings - Did Sauron give any care to Saruman or was he In the chaos Eomer created, two hobbits managed to escape with the help of a greedy orc and met with an ancient being which in turn led to the ruin of Saruman. If Saruman had the ring and he learned to master it, he could rule Sauron's armies and servants as it says in The Fellowship Of The Ring. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Why did Saruman seem to believe that Sauron wouldn't return? What would have happened if Saruman had gotten his hands on the One Ring? For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the . Cookie Notice A Saruman prequel, an Aragorn spin-off and a Gandalf v the Necromancer thriller could all lead up to the fateful hunt of Gollum and the events immediately preceding the Lord of the Rings (with . The orcs likely would have gotten to Isengard the next day or so or met Saruman on the way as he or his image was seen by Aragorn and Company on the evening of the 30th. The first thing you need to realize is just how long a gap there was between the two trilogies. 2463, Saruman was appointed its leader.Even then, he had begun to sense the resurgence of Sauron and to envy and desire his power, and especially his One Ring.Coincidentally, in that same year the One Ring was found by the creature Gollum, drawing the Dark Lord closer to the conflict that would eventually prove Saruman's undoing. Either way, the good guys loose big. Gandalf had the last one, though Im not sure anyone but Cirdan, Himself, and Elrond and Galadriel knew it. If he succeeded in doing that, Sauron would have been defeated because it was his saving anchor. While Frodo and his companions know that Sauron is an embodiment of . In the hypothetic situation where Sauron thought, or knew, that Saruman had the Ring, I think he would have responded in a similar way. In Middle-earth history, it seems likely Saruman arrived before Gandalf did. Here's a new theory concerning Saruman and Grima. Why does Gollum calling the ring his own not alert Sauron? It seems it was a mistake for the Ring to leave Isildur. Would the One Ring even work for anyone but Sauron? Although they did oppose the will of Sauron, while he did not have the one, they were still subject to his will, if he regained it, and all that had been done with them would be revealed. He wanted to inform Saruman the White -- who was head of the White Council -- that he had found Sauron's One Ring hidden away in the Shire. How did Saruman become corrupted? The Ring merely corrupted you, it did not control you. " The Hunt for the Ring " is a chapter in Unfinished Tales, a posthumously published work of J.R.R. Sauron was much the stronger, but a lot of his power is in the ring. With the more powerful becoming all the more corrupted. Unfortunately, Sauron had got on the wrong side of a particularly powerful race: the Nmenreans.The isle of Nmenr was a realm of men that sat apart from Middle-earth and those who lived there were more powerful than the men seen elsewhere in The Lord of . Even if Theoden triumphed at Helm's Deep in this scenario, Saruman would be relatively safe in Isengard and Aragorn would not be able to look into the Palantir which is what led Sauron to focus his attention in Aragorn's direction and not around his own borders. Lord of the Rings: Saruman Secretly Made His Own Ring of Power This increased his corruption, though he never lost the possibility of becoming independent with the One Ring. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. Too well studied, as it turned out, for Saruman gradually turned to evil himself, emulating Sauron's works. He reasoned that his total control of Middle . I'm a little vague on this point. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. But why do I think the Stranger is Saruman? Other powerul magic users such as Galadriel, Gandalf & Saruman can use the Ring to increase their power as that is what it was forged by Sauron to do, but it will never truly be completely under their will because Sauron's evil will already exists in the Ring. If Saruman had not been corrupted in the first place, the war might have gone much easier for the Free Peoples. But there isn't a blind following of obedience in Tolkien at least not with wise and just characters depending on the circumstances. Gandalf & Galadriel admitted they would eventually fall to evil will of Sauron through the One Ring. A couple of points to add to the excellent arguments thus far: This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Ummm, thats what the One Ring does for someone who has zero magical ability. He writes about everything from NCIS to Stranger Things to The Walking Dead and everything in between. I suspect that most of us think Saruman's treachery is so fundamental to Lord of the Rings, that it is almost impossible to imagine the epic without it. But if The Rings of Power already called dibs on Gandalf's origins, there's always the tale of what the grey wizard got up to between The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, a story so worthwhile . Thus, while Gandalf taking the One Ring would have expediated the destruction of Sauron, it also would have hasted the subjugation of Middle-earth. Saruman Was a Traitor Long Before The Lord of the Rings But what does Saruman do now? Is the man a thousand times stronger than a normal man? "In a hole in the ground there lived a rabbit? Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. He did not fear Sauron, but rather was forbidden to contest with him directly. His actions were more indirect as his decision was of non-action in not taking Frodo to Minas Tirith. So all of the vanilla staves will get a retexture that adds a new color depending on their enchantment. Saruman is ruined when the Riders of Rohan defeat his army and Merry and Pippin prompt the Ents to destroy Isengard. We know that disobedience can bring ruin such as what happened with the Noldor when they disobeyed the Valar or the Army of the Dead when they disobeyed Isildur and broke their oath to fight for him. What if: One of the primarch's had landed on the world of Avatar the Last Airbender. Virginia. On the surface, Saruman seems like one of the simplest Lord of the Rings characters to define. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Maybe, though i dont know that much about Sauman's power and. We dont know if the Stranger will make it to his destination and the show could certainly deviate from lore or invent new history ( as it has done already). Come join us to discuss the works of Tolkien. Will to conquer all life in Middle-earth was the last bit I believe. The other Rings of power could be used by anyone else varying only by the individual. Who is more popular Leonardo DiCaprio or Tom Cruise? What would have happened if Saruman got the ring? The first and most obvious reason Galadriel gets to hang on to her Ring - Nenya, the Ring of Water - from beginning (i.e.